IN REGARDS TO RIVERCLAN HIGH RANKS AND PLOT FINDERS

[Fish]

IN REGARDS TO RIVERCLAN HIGH RANKS AND PLOT FINDERS
[This can in parts be towards other High Ranks as well but this is what I’ve seen, your experiences are important too!]

This system is broken and something needs to change. We have had two high ranks in Riverclan leave out of stress from this site and this isn’t working. Riverclan is struggling right now. Let’s get started. I feel like a lot of people have been unfairly dogging on all our High Ranks for everything under the sun and have been pretty rude about it too. It seems like some people have forgotten that there’s an actual person living behind the screens here.

Everything seems to be Riverclan’s fault and heavily weighed on the High Ranks. Every tiniest slight, every littlest argument. Character being downright horrible to them.

What do I think we can do to change this? Please take this with a grain of salt as I am speaking for the High Ranks while not being one, I just felt like I needed to speak out about this. One if your cat is going to be mean to the High Rank, please remember they are a human being just like you. Do SOMETHING to tell them that this isn’t how you feel about them and is just only rp. A small note in your post, a little vm, whatever. If you have multiple characters in a single clan perhaps don’t make them all hate the leader? It will seem just like a massive mob, or could be misconceived that you as a person actually feel this way when you really don’t.

It really does seem like this is just mass bullying at this point guys.

Two, this is with finders. I feel like there should be some kind of change. I am not asking you all to stop having fun and being destructive, but a leader can’t control every little detail of what the clan does. Speaking of that very thing, A LEADER CAN’T CONTROL EVERY LITTLE DETAIL. If you are going to put a bunch of throwaways into a plot finder they should just be treated as such. They shouldn’t be mentioned with things. With big plots, I think maybe we should stop and think before adding in a throwaway: if you're not willing to deal with the consequences with your own characters, how will the roleplayer behind the HR feel about dealing with that same backlash? When you submit your cat to a finder you're showing you're willing to be involved in that plot, but keep in mind that the HRs don't get that luxury. If the plot is big enough, it will involve them whether they asked to join or not!

Now this is no hate towards what has been done in the past as the past was the past. All we can do is learn and move on.

I think if we are going to do a throw away plots it should just be for some little fun while you guys wait for replies and stay seated there. They don’t need to have an impact on the leaders for no reason. It's stressful, makes Riverclan look uncontrollable and bad while all this happens in other clans as well but they aren’t currently being hounded on as hard as god damn Riverclan is right now.

Please as a heartfelt warning, be nice? We're all on this site to have fun! Let's work together to make roleplaying a positive experience for everyone involved.

[sillycreatur]

YES. thank you.

[Dakotaa]

I personally think that the next set of HRS should be decided via a vote by the clan

Edit: this post came out wrong so lemme explain it quickly. The recent HRS chosen have been people with 0 idea of what to do, and immediately started being criticized. There is going to be criticism. My idea of reducing that was to have the members choose so that was it wasn’t as… terrifying…

[starry]

YESS THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!! even with so much chaos going on it should be kept in mind that theres actual people with feelings behind the characters and so much hate or disrespect to them isnt okay! :heartbounce:

[alec]

i absolutely agree. lark being constantly badmouthed and dragged into everything was absolutely way too much. i think people need to chill with their insane plots OR keep them outside of general clan activity so it doesnt keep adding up.
Sakura. i dont think it would be right to vote on someone by clan, hr's choosing hr's based on their behaviour ooc is a safer way imo. if the hr's sift through applications and provide a lineup of possible (but previously checked) candidates id be good w it, you just kinda need a level of filtering cuz you dont want your hr to post 2 line posts n stuff

[Mica]

Thank you for being brave enough to say it out loud on the forums. I’m glad someone else has noticed the double standard and is just as frustrated as I am.

[JellyMoons]

I 100% agree. Kindness goes a long way. People are allowed to make mistakes, have limits, and enjoy their lives outside of a hobby. I'm still new here, so I'm sure my word isn't big, but I've seen fandom communities die because of people taking fictional events too seriously. It's just a silly hobby to fill time. If it truly begins to bother you, though, take a step back and breathe. None of it really matters :heartbounce:

[GoldenRavenWings]

This is true. We have lost both of our medicine cats due to stress and I think it’s time we stopped stressing them out. Let the high ranks have time to breath instead of non-stop things.

[lesbianism]

Sakura. @Beanz (https://warriorcatsonline.com/forums/member.php?u=20354) this post wasn't about how to pick HRs it was about being kinder to other people and considering their feelings

[Dakotaa]

Yes I understand, but there’s something some of you guys don’t see. I can’t really talk about it but most of the HRS are set up to fail. It’s not mine to talk about but the selection process has… issues… I feel so sorry for what has happened to the hrs, and I completely understand their stress and frustration, but no one is actually helping them. The hrs needed support.

[poppy]

Sakura. @Beanz (https://warriorcatsonline.com/forums/member.php?u=20354) this post wasn't about how to pick HRs it was about being kinder to other people and considering their feelings

^^^



love this thread!

[Marigoldwhisper]

Honestly, thank you! Sometimes it's easy to forgot that these are real people we're talking to, people with lives outside of this site and they have every right to have said lives. So yeah, I definitely agree with you! Roleplaying is supposed to be fun with some fun shenanigans sprinkled in but not downright hateful. I'm no saint either and I'll definitely have to watch what I do and say on this site so that this problem doesn't increase. Thanks a bunch for spreading much needed awareness!

[Dakotaa]

Sakura. @Beanz (https://warriorcatsonline.com/forums/member.php?u=20354) this post wasn't about how to pick HRs it was about being kinder to other people and considering their feelings


I realized that I didn’t give context behind my thinking. It wasn’t how to pick, it was more of,,, a possible way of reducing that criticism. It still sounds wrong but idk how to communicate my thinking correctly -

[Beanz]

Sakura. @Beanz (https://warriorcatsonline.com/forums/member.php?u=20354) this post wasn't about how to pick HRs it was about being kinder to other people and considering their feelings



oh sorry I have really bad eyesight I think that everyone should be treated with respect no matter what putting stress onto people is not healthy for you or for others I would as the high rank or the character you want to make a plot about discuss it with them and you must respect their wishes!

[Fawn]

Yes I understand, but there’s something some of you guys don’t see. I can’t really talk about it but most of the HRS are set up to fail. It’s not mine to talk about but the selection process has… issues… I feel so sorry for what has happened to the hrs, and I completely understand their stress and frustration, but no one is actually helping them. The hrs needed support.
"I can't really talk about it"
Please do, I think it'd be helpful for this thread / you won't get into trouble or anything if that's a concern. If there's a specific situation you're thinking about, it might be nice to provide that context for others & allow better systems to come into place.

As for the selection process - I haven't been involved in it directly in a long time. But I'm 99% certain it's the same: where the high rank chooses options, staff make sure they don't have massive infractions and meet the activity requirements, and that's that? Again, if there's a scenario where it didn't happen this way, please elaborate!

[Beanz]

I think we should make something for every high rank a collaborative drawing of all the high rnanks cats together?

[Snips]

EXACTLY! Lark/Frosty has been thrown under the bus too many times to count. The first uprising plot was fun, but after that? Cats and plots kept insulting, degrading, and overloading HRs and their roleplayers.

[Beanz]

I cometly agree so many people are making plots that aren't really getting fun anymore honestly I hate to see them go I was good friends with frosty and honestly I wish I could speak my mind rn

[stardust.]

I know this probably isn’t allowed to mention, but who were the cats/members who were mean to Lark/Frosty? I wanna know because I am never ever tolerant of any behavior like that on wco.

[Dust]

High-rank positions have and always will be a very stressful & intensive role to play on the website. We all manage the stress of it differently and as someone who has roleplayed as a HR before (and has been roleplaying extensively in both text & voice settings for a long time), it can be very hard to not get lost in the sauce of negative or otherwise "against your character" moments in roleplay, especially when personal issues arise in life - more so when time & stress management start to become jumbled. This also includes inactivity, where sometimes your actions feel hopeless. We learn to move through it and appreciate those who show up and show their support.

Ultimately, I agree with the sentiment that kindness, reassurance, and also communication between all roleplayers is super important, especially when dealing with heavier topics :[ This also helps when distinguishing between strictly IC & OOC issues or worries. Always make sure to express yourself, understand your stress and have a good support system to lean on!! Staff have always expressed that breaks are ok, and if it is too much - even when distributing responsibilities between the HR's in your clan - there is nothing wrong with prioritizing your mental health over the site (and this has happened alot!!).

From what I understand, the staff are involved as much as they have been when it comes to HR selection (it seems to be the same as when I was staff). I think a vote is a good idea in practice, but can come to be super divisive among users, as well as overwhelming or confusing, rather than just having one person choose among a generally even playing field based off activity and clan-presence. When I participated in staff, we sometimes reached out to more inactive or struggling HR's with potential ideas for storylines and plots - however I don't know if this is something that is still occurring!!

All in all, I think the intention is very good! But sometimes threads like these can be very polarizing. I think addressing staff privately with ideas and propositions is a good idea - and making sure to report any actual instances of bullying or negative behavior. :heartbounce:

[dino.]

As someone who’s held two leader ranks in TC, one not as involved as it should have been and one that seriously cranked up engagement after a long chain of previous inactive leaders, I want to throw my two cents in.


Roleplay is supposed to be fluid. That’s the beauty of it. We’re all just here writing about our characters, driving our own stories, and tying our individual creations into a much larger narrative. Throwaways are a part of this. So are member-made plots that include said throwaways. HRs aren’t meant to control every single aspect of their Clan or the others. It’s practically impossible to do that and would be unfair to members even if it were. I imagine it wouldn’t be any fun for anyone if I got to lay down my railroad tracks across others’ and block off any and every plot I personally didn’t feel like experiencing at that moment in time. We aren’t here to micromanage every little thing that happens - we’re here to make sure the Clan’s functioning smoothly, push its story forward, and ensure things remain engaging overall even in the absence of big, over-arcing plots. I personally love seeing what comes out of member-driven storylines and the effects it has on the larger world. Separating “throwaway plots” from the larger narrative would be completely artificial and take away from the experience as a whole.


Holding a Rank takes serious time and dedication. It’s stressful, especially if you’re on the leader side of things. Sometimes it feels like the equivalent of an unpaid part-time job. I have to balance managing OOC systems, driving plots forward, and keeping things relatively engaging at the same time as keeping up with college classes, studying for exams, submitting work, managing real-life relationships and mental health, and remembering to take some time for myself when I get the chance. This is hard for me now even with a history of past HRs; I can imagine just how tough it is for someone who doesn’t because I was there once. I think what tends to be forgotten and just piles more stress on top of things when folks take up the mantle is that the direction of the story isn’t on one person’s shoulders. Again, that’s what’s great about roleplay. One person can’t control every aspect, so take solace in that, embrace it, and roll with what happens. It makes things easier and keeps things fun.


It also feels like there's been an influx in IC statements being taken as OOC comments or opinions, and the impact has been fairly obvious. In-Character opinions do not translate to the roleplayer's - if this were true, I would be openly expressing a healthy amount of dislike for RiverClan and ShadowClan just as Bumblestar does. I love both, Bumble hates them; Glowingpaw can't stand Vulturefang, I love the guy and think he's awesome; Fleckstorm wanted to hunt Cowtuft down and commit murder, I was very sad to see him go. As someone who's been in the WCO community for 7, coming up on 8, years, it's odd and a little disconcerting to see a character's potentially negative thoughts toward another's be taken as a roleplayer's own feelings. Seems like a new thing and I think a good idea would be to take a step back and remind ourselves that this rarely is, if ever, the case.


TLDR; understand that roleplay is meant to fluctuate and HRs aren't supposed to have total control, the job is hella tough and HRs deserve your kindness and patience, and IC opinions do not reflect OOC feelings. We're here to encourage connection and be your open point of entry into the roleplay, not your blockade.

[Snips]

I cometly agree so many people are making plots that aren't really getting fun anymore honestly I hate to see them go I was good friends with frosty and honestly I wish I could speak my mind rn
you can. And I agree, the plots are all just trauma and violence. When I joined (I know that makes me sound old, but thats how much things have changed) plots with TWs were well-made, well-planned, and best of all, rare. We need to fix that now. Whether people realize it or not, HRs are up there with the staff as the heart and soul of WCO. In addition, all this makes people less likely to want to be HRs If the HRs leave because of us, this forum will come crashing down around us. However, dino is right. The thing is, it sometimes seems like the line between IC and OOC is becoming more blurred when it comes to consideration and treatment of HRs.

[taillow]

chiming in here as someone who has also held two high ranks; very time demanding and very time consuming and requires a lot of dedication and commitment. pretty much echoing what dino said here + adding that IC opinions do not, and should never, reflect OOC opinions. being able to separate writing from the writer is crucial, in my opinion, to enjoy any kind of literature (not just roleplaying!)

all in all, always be kind to others and express empathy, patience, and understanding to everyone you meet + especially the high ranks who put so so so much of their love and dedication into maintaining a wonderful and engaging storyline :heartbounce:

[Faith.]

:heartbounce: sending love and respekt to all hrs, and giving them good luck vibes bcs I'm almost 99% pawsitive there will end up beinf a war >.<

[JellyMoons]

dino. Just wanted to say, that was brilliantly put. :heartbounce:

[Fish]

Roleplay is supposed to be fluid. That’s the beauty of it. We’re all just here writing about our characters, driving our own stories, and tying our individual creations into a much larger narrative. Throwaways are a part of this. So are member-made plots that include said throwaways. HRs aren’t meant to control every single aspect of their Clan or the others. It’s practically impossible to do that and would be unfair to members even if it were. I imagine it wouldn’t be any fun for anyone if I got to lay down my railroad tracks across others’ and block off any and every plot I personally didn’t feel like experiencing at that moment in time. We aren’t here to micromanage every little thing that happens - we’re here to make sure the Clan’s functioning smoothly, push its story forward, and ensure things remain engaging overall even in the absence of big, over-arcing plots. I personally love seeing what comes out of member-driven storylines and the effects it has on the larger world. Separating “throwaway plots” from the larger narrative would be completely artificial and take away from the experience as a whole.


Honestly, I fundamentally disagree with this here. It goes against the whole point of what I was trying to say here. I am not saying you cannot roleplay plot finders. I am not saying that HR are going to control every little aspect of every little plot of every little rp. What I was trying to say here was that plots that have short live fights on boarders and only have cats that were made for the sole purpose of dying to that plot and are brand new otherwise shouldn't have such an impact. No throwing every tiny little thing in the face of the HRs. Blaming every little thing on them. Harassing them on every little thing. When all the characters had only been made a day, maybe, prior from dying.

If we want long lasting rps we should do these things with characters that truly matter, it will have much more of an impact and would lessen the constant onslaught of hate coming towards a single leader. Which has been happening.

[Astraea]

My yap session

I know a few of are new but riverclan has always been some type of chaos thats the fun in my opinion about wco you really dont know whats gonna happen!

Riverclan has always been the clan with no stable high ranks and its been like that for the 3-4 ish years i've been on wco. Thats purely just hows it been. Saying that high ranks weren't ready for their position are half baked lies. As dino said, making a good high ranks thats time, and I think they would know seeing as they've had 2 leader highranks.

It's also very stressful! Because they have to go through spreadsheets every 2 weeks to find out whos not been active. If patrols are complete, if they enough of herbs. Theres alot that goes on behind the scenes that normal members really dont know or think about! Please try to be considerate of these things before fully attacking a person because they dont "seem like a good hr" theyre under alot of pressure put on by us the members to be successful, and productive, while being a highrank!

And if you want to have a character who hates a leader/deputy/hr etc. Go for it! Just remember to be respectful of the hr and the person roleplaying them! They are humans too!!


I love WCO and would prefer if personal hate stayed off it <3 love yall seriously!

[Fish]

I think you guys are misunderstanding me here. I am not saying high ranks aren't ready for their roles?

[BEAR.]

Hi, former RiverClan leader here. Prior to Lionstorm, we didn't have much in terms of a unified roleplay experience - it was a lot like the Private Roleplays area where things were isolated.

I think it's important to remember high ranks can and should delegate tasks too! Sometimes, life does get in the way of ensuring a smooth sail and that's why "social ranks" are included in our roleplay. Lionhearts, Hornets, Enforcers-- these were positions made with encouraging engagement in mind and spreading out duties so they feel less overwhelming! You can also offer to help regardless of rank! Issuing patrols, handling problems, etc. does help take pressure off high ranks.

Part of why throwaways are created are to fuel engagement. It could be because people feel there isn't enough actively going on, maybe they're just bored and want some chaos. Regardless, recognizing it isn't a high rank's job OOC to control these situations is crucial. You cannot control what everyone does, but you can control how your character handles situations. Communication is key to success, whether it be scheming with other high ranks to navigate tricky binds or using the support of the Clan to back what you do.

For those concerned with the IC opinions, please consider the cards RC played: Larkstar was young to be a leader and very inexperienced, Birdsnow has a bad reputation for a 3 year apprenticeship, and Tansypaw told the Clan-- in front of ThunderClan-- she would not heal them. These are traits that should be concerning to most cats, and while some may not handle it in the best way, the majority of characters do not have ill intent and want to voice their doubts about the direction their Clan is going.

As a leader, I had plenty of cats question/disrespect Lion and go against his wishes. His solution was to smite them, and while that may not be the go-to for every leader being firm on punishments and seeing things through is valuable in keeping things maintainable. As a roleplayer, the only time comments bothered me was when OOC mischaracterized my cat into something he wasn't or didn't do. IC didn't matter to me, it's nothing personal. I strongly agree with Dino's point that if IC is impacting you OOC, you need to take a step back and breathe! For me, I would have been BORED if everyone just went along with what Lion wanted. Give me some SPICE! :fire: It gives the Clan so much more flavor and opportunities for conflict and activity.

With that being said, I do agree there has been an abundance of violent plots and would encourage you guys to brainstorm with your local high ranks to change things up! Having the same old, same old does get stale and getting some respite-- even if for just a moment-- might be a nice refresher.

[Faith.]

A high rank, no matter what clan, is usually an amazing member on the site that is picked by the current mods and admin on the site. If that doesn't tell you anything, I don't know what does
HRs worked hard to get where they are, and it's not that they "weren't ready for it" or don't know what they're doing. A lot of problems are actually caused by people being rude, intentionally or not, and throwing their own problems - that them and their characters should be able to deal with- on the ground for other people to solve and fix.

I don't mean to be rude by saying this, and I'm sure no one here is trying to offend anyone. And I'm not saying you can't have different opinions.

It's really easy to hurt someone, like throwing a rock into a lake. But you have to stop and think about how deep that rock can go. Just because these people are the leaders, deputies, or medicine cats of the clans doesn't mean that they don't have to keep every single cat or member in check. We have to be able to manage ourselves to prevent problems like this from rising.

And while the HRs aren't unprepared or inexperienced, they don't have the solution for everything, and they shouldn't have to. Are we not capable human beings with the means to solve problems? I personally don't want to see people fighting each other unless in roleplay, especially not somewhere that people use as a place they can trust people.

Long story short, the high ranks are not completely at fault for this. I won't say they are fully apart from the situation, but they shouldn't have to deal with this giant blame game.

[Fish]

Hi, former RiverClan leader here. Prior to Lionstorm, we didn't have much in terms of a unified roleplay experience - it was a lot like the Private Roleplays area where things were isolated.

I think it's important to remember high ranks can and should delegate tasks too! Sometimes, life does get in the way of ensuring a smooth sail and that's why "social ranks" are included in our roleplay. Lionhearts, Hornets, Enforcers-- these were positions made with encouraging engagement in mind and spreading out duties so they feel less overwhelming! You can also offer to help regardless of rank! Issuing patrols, handling problems, etc. does help take pressure off high ranks.

Part of why throwaways are created are to fuel engagement. It could be because people feel there isn't enough actively going on, maybe they're just bored and want some chaos. Regardless, recognizing it isn't a high rank's job OOC to control these situations is crucial. You cannot control what everyone does, but you can control how your character handles situations. Communication is key to success, whether it be scheming with other high ranks to navigate tricky binds or using the support of the Clan to back what you do.

For those concerned with the IC opinions, please consider the cards RC played: Larkstar was young to be a leader and very inexperienced, Birdsnow has a bad reputation for a 3 year apprenticeship, and Tansypaw told the Clan-- in front of ThunderClan-- she would not heal them. These are traits that should be concerning to most cats, and while some may not handle it in the best way, the majority of characters do not have ill intent and want to voice their doubts about the direction their Clan is going.

As a leader, I had plenty of cats question/disrespect Lion and go against his wishes. His solution was to smite them, and while that may not be the go-to for every leader being firm on punishments and seeing things through is valuable in keeping things maintainable. As a roleplayer, the only time comments bothered me was when OOC mischaracterized my cat into something he wasn't or didn't do. IC didn't matter to me, it's nothing personal. I strongly agree with Dino's point that if IC is impacting you OOC, you need to take a step back and breathe! For me, I would have been BORED if everyone just went along with what Lion wanted. Give me some SPICE! :fire: It gives the Clan so much more flavor and opportunities for conflict and activity.

With that being said, I do agree there has been an abundance of violent plots and would encourage you guys to brainstorm with your local high ranks to change things up! Having the same old, same old does get stale and getting some respite-- even if for just a moment-- might be a nice refresher.

I will mention that those social ranks are not treated any better than the other high ranks. Lionhearts get dogged on all the time themselves and I would not be surprised if many stepped down just because of this as well. It great and fantastic that you don't let this effect you but you aren't the only person that there is.

I understand the beginning disrespect towards larkstar but after the 800th time it becomes a bit much and I sincerely doubt that just murder and exile would have fixed this.

Yet again I am not saying that HRs are controlling every plot. Literally just saying that not every little rando cat fight should be the end of the world.

People have taken breaks and gone on long haituses but nothing changed, does that seem like the system is the best?

[Fawn]

Just a thank you to former (and current) HRs that have talked personally about your experiences in this thread. :heartbounce:

[stag]

A high rank, no matter what clan, is usually an amazing member on the site that is picked by the current mods and admin on the site. If that doesn't tell you anything, I don't know what does

Hey, I just wished to point out that staff don't pick high ranks, we are not that super involved in the high rank selection process if we're being honest!

Staff are pretty much only involved in activity checks of the pool that the High Rank selects and send to staff as we wish to avoid inactive characters from getting a rank that won't be active or engaged with their clan!

The HR send in a possible pool of cats that they wish to have in the HR position they are filling, staff see if the selected member and character meet the requirements (or major infractions) and the HR goes through with the rest. :heartbounce:

[Faith.]

Hey, I just wished to point out that staff don't pick high ranks, we are not that super involved in the high rank selection process if we're being honest!

Staff are pretty much only involved in activity checks of the pool that the High Rank selects and send to staff as we wish to avoid inactive characters from getting a rank that won't be active or engaged with their clan!

The HR send in a possible pool of cats that they wish to have in the HR position they are filling, staff see of the selected member and character meet the requirements (or major infractions) and the HR goes through with the rest. :heartbounce:


Ohhhh, my bad! :sob:

[sillycreatur]

Just a thank you to former (and current) HRs that have talked personally about your experiences in this thread. :heartbounce:
agreed, a big thank you to all of you who are talking civilly. it's much appreciated and also educating for people who wish to roleplay hrs in the future! /gen /pos

[Fawn]

Honestly, I fundamentally disagree with this here. It goes against the whole point of what I was trying to say here. I am not saying you cannot roleplay plot finders. I am not saying that HR are going to control every little aspect of every little plot of every little rp. What I was trying to say here was that plots that have short live fights on boarders and only have cats that were made for the sole purpose of dying to that plot and are brand new otherwise shouldn't have such an impact. No throwing every tiny little thing in the face of the HRs. Blaming every little thing on them. Harassing them on every little thing. When all the characters had only been made a day, maybe, prior from dying.

If we want long lasting rps we should do these things with characters that truly matter, it will have much more of an impact and would lessen the constant onslaught of hate coming towards a single leader. Which has been happening.
I'll chime in to say that you can go back pre-2018 or so to see this in action if you'd like! Throwaway characters weren't really a thing back then. Unfortunately, the result of this was that next to nobody died in RPs, battles, events, etc. or got permanently injured / there wasn't really any impactful things because nobody wanted to volunteer characters they were attached to.

Editing to add: It felt like battles and wars held less urgency (and naturally there was very minimal organic drama/tension between Clans)--going into it, only characters who were already inactive would be killed off sometimes by the RPer just to get rid of them, and that was even rare. There was no sense of realistic danger, if your cat never knew anyone who ever died in RP due to those kinds of circumstances.

[hades.]

I very, very much agree

[blxze.]

This is smart.
I think your idea could work splendidly.
All of this has got me thinking about how we can improve it in the future.
Now, I think maybe we should just notify people we don't always agree with what our characters say and do, and apologize if the person legitimately seems upset on their responding post.
We need a little less murder and maybe some good news, too, in my opinion.
Honestly, that kind of drama is okay occasionally. But we need to have happy times, when the roleplayers get to feel just as content as their characters, if you know what I mean?
We need to have time where everyone can just... I don't know, not be quite so dark and angry all the time?
i think maybe we should give high ranks a break when they need it- like maybe they could write in their sig for a little while; "Do not include in dark roleplays until this is removed, thank you for your understanding" or something like that? Just an idea, maybe.
I appreciate all you high ranks and former high ranks so much- I don't want any single one of you to feel bad bc of this site. :heartbounce: :penguinballoon:

[Spookez.]

Time to go on a yapping spree.

(THIS IS JUST HOW I FEEL, THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE ROLEPLAY CHARACTERS AND NOT THE HUMANS BEHIND THEM. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANY OF THIS TO HEART.)

I feel like due to the war and the large amount of fun stuff going on, people are taking advantage of that.

Sure, a leader can step down and stop all this. But could they really? Sure, Dawnstar sure did imply that state of mind. That's only because messing with her basically slams down character death. Whenever it was consented or not. Even that, Dawnstar has been around for as long as I can remember. It took months if not years to smash this rule into everyones heads.

So it will take a while to control a clan. Even more so with all this clan drama going on. I mean come on, Thunderclan is getting raided by Shadowclan while Thunderclan is busy raiding Riverclan. Honestly the only chill clan now is Windclan.

It was never Larkstar's fault. She didn't go out and hand out perms to raid and kill other clan cats. But it isn't the other leader's fault for them reacting to it. Hell, if I was a HR I would have attacked Riverclan on the first kill. It isn't the people's faults either! They just want some Roleplay fun, and I understand.

Honestly. I feel like this bunch of HR's is gonna stay here for a while. Can't wait to see how this all turns out.

Now, the IC And OOC drama. I understand where she's coming from. Disobeying someones rules and calling them "Mousebrained." is all cool fun! But it can get stressful when every single cat in your clan hates you. Minus a few kits or so.

I feel like if your getting so much backlash, get the deputy to help you with knocking your clan into shape. Or bring back the sort of group of high ranked warriors. Forgot what Windclan called them. Their like a mini group of polices.

My best group of advice is to tell people how you feel (Which you did just now.) and put your foot down on clan rules. Make it known that your character WILL face death if not exile if they try anything.

--WIP-- TheLostAmongTheStars (Just for you to see if you want.)

[Dakotaa]

"I can't really talk about it"
Please do, I think it'd be helpful for this thread / you won't get into trouble or anything if that's a concern. If there's a specific situation you're thinking about, it might be nice to provide that context for others & allow better systems to come into place.

As for the selection process - I haven't been involved in it directly in a long time. But I'm 99% certain it's the same: where the high rank chooses options, staff make sure they don't have massive infractions and meet the activity requirements, and that's that? Again, if there's a scenario where it didn't happen this way, please elaborate!

Okay, so in my personal experiences, something that was never addressed. I was bullied by two members of staff on the discord months ago, and humiliated by said two members. From what I’ve seen, these members haven’t been punished, and rather, one got a promotion. I don’t have positive looks on the older staff because I’ve heard things from other former HRS and how they weren’t exactly given an agenda and proper warnings (allegedly,) with my personal experiences and the things I’ve heard from people I trust, I can’t exactly say you guys are angels. I also never got an apology.

[wendigo]

honestly, I can sort of see what you're saying. a few characters IC have said uh things about my characters, but it is really really really important to separate IC from OOC. that's also another reason why some other roleplay forums and stuff have a rule to not put or spill your emotions all over your writing, as sometimes it could disturb or upset someone. that's also why so many people here have that one warning that goes "hey, just so you know, I don't share my character's thoughts or feelings!!" in their signature (or something like that)

going to what frosty said in their goodbye message, they did mention that they were getting stressed out about this site, which is something you should generally not be feeling. roleplaying should be fun and should be a stress reliever, not a stress creator. imo, if you're starting to feel stressed out about things on this site, take a break. go on hiatus for as long as you like. don't make yourself grow white hairs and wrinkles on a roleplaying site!!

[Collieheart]

For those interested, I thought it would be helpful to put together something nice for the HRs, considering what happened with frosty and silver. The thread is here (http://warriorcatsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77434) and any help would be appreciated. All I can think of is art, so if anyone has other ideas please feel free to suggest.

[Saki]

Ok. It took me about half an hour but I read EVERY SINGLE REPLY ON THIS THREAD (Yes, all five pages, no one got skipped) and I am in shock. i didn't know what had happened until today because I just check frosty and silver's account and wow. I am genuinely shocked. And I just wanna say that it feels like everyone is talking about leaders and deputies- but medicine cats! Like I get yall said hrs and you may have also been talking about meds idk man. But i feel so bad for those people because you were talking gorey plots and stuff but who are the ones who have to deal with that? Along with all the other cats that are kitting or getting small injuries. Not saying that I have not made or been along with many plots where you get injured, i'm just pointing out that it is excessive and these medicine cats need a break. Idk how we could fix that but for now, to help, even if just a little, even if just a pinch, imma try to just leave HRs alone. Barely any new characters, no tw roleplays, as little interaction as I can unless moving a plot along, gathering or smth. I just think that for know they deserve a break. With lark and tansy gone, we don't want another loss to this website.

[MangofDoom]

Yes! Something needs to change! I haven’t been here long (started late November), so I don’t know much about WCO specifically, but I have been roleplaying for about 5-6 years. A mix of text and ttrg game roleplaying. I’m also involved in theater and know some stuff about safety in regards to playing out characters.

Emotional Safety Measures
It’s easy to let yourself bleed into your character, so it makes total sense if things said to a character IC still effects the character’s player OOC. Putting “I dont think this, my character does” messages can help with certainy, of course. It’d be nice if we can begin to put messages at the end of our posts if things get hairy, and have it common. If enough people do it, it could spread and become more common. Not in the signature, imo, cus it’s easy to look over.

It’d be nice if we started reaching out and explicitly messaging someone when things get serious. Like, I text my DnD players after big RP sessions and ask if they’re alright, and support them if they aren’t. Even a little “Hey, there’s a lotta people criticizing your character, u good? Ur doing great!” can be so nice. Even if they are alright, it can be nice for reassurance.

Saturation
There’s a lot going on just about all the time. I totally agree with batt, and I’d love to brainstorm some sort of strategy to decrease the amount of things the HRs are dragged into. Maybe asking permission before tagging an HR?
Or we could address the amount of throwaways. Maybe there’s a cooldown on how long you can wait till you can submit a new character. As someone else mentioned, the amount of throwaways allow for more stakes and confrontations as people can and will die. So maybe we can find a balance.
Or, make it so there’s more consequences for killing a throwaway? Or just more work? Not sure, I’m not an expert in moderation.

Tagging Resources
And, I believe having something posted to outline when it is and isn’t appropriate to tag an HR would be helpful. Not hidden in a non-official thread, front and center. It would make things more clear, so there’s less guesswork for new players. And it gives the HRs a resource to defend themself if someone tags them too much. (unless this is already a thing, in which case, oops)


ALSO ALSO Sakura. that absolutely sucks, I’m so sorry that happened. It makes complete sense for you to distrust them. I think this is serious enough for its own thread, could you tag me in it?

[Spookez.]

| Sakura. My lord what the hell, I feel bad for you tbh. If you need anyone to talk to, I'm here <3

[stardust.]

I found out the staff who were bullying @/Sakura and honestly one of them SHOCKED me. Honestly staff shouldn’t be bullying members at all, they also didn’t tell me the reason why. Just who bullied them.

[elaif]

I would like to say as a HR, there has been excessive drama since I joined 3 (almost 4) years ago. It's what keeps things moving. I personally don't have a problem w/ it, I like the drama lmao

[Fish]

Okay, so in my personal experiences, something that was never addressed. I was bullied by two members of staff on the discord months ago, and humiliated by said two members. From what I’ve seen, these members haven’t been punished, and rather, one got a promotion. I don’t have positive looks on the older staff because I’ve heard things from other former HRS and how they weren’t exactly given an agenda and proper warnings (allegedly,) with my personal experiences and the things I’ve heard from people I trust, I can’t exactly say you guys are angels. I also never got an apology.

I'm so sorry that happened, pms are open if you want to talk

[stardust.]

I would like to say as a HR, there has been excessive drama since I joined 3 (almost 4) years ago. It's what keeps things moving. I personally don't have a problem w/ it, I like the drama lmao
Isn’t drama against wco guidelines though? It specifically says to keep drama off the forums.

[elaif]

Isn’t drama against wco guidelines though? It specifically says to keep drama off the forums.

I'm talking about IC rp drama bestie:skull:

[stardust.]

I'm talking about IC rp drama bestie:skull:
Oh ok

[panchiko]

Okay, so in my personal experiences, something that was never addressed. I was bullied by two members of staff on the discord months ago, and humiliated by said two members. From what I’ve seen, these members haven’t been punished, and rather, one got a promotion. I don’t have positive looks on the older staff because I’ve heard things from other former HRS and how they weren’t exactly given an agenda and proper warnings (allegedly,) with my personal experiences and the things I’ve heard from people I trust, I can’t exactly say you guys are angels. I also never got an apology.

Hey Sakura,

We appreciate you coming forward to add context to the input you've given in this thread.

Your posts outlining your personal experience have understandably raised worry within the community, particularly about the objectivity of our moderation process. I'd like to reassure you and our community that the staff team holds the well-being of our members in high regard and we approach reports of harassment with the utmost seriousness.

Our team primarily operates behind the scenes to respect the privacy and comfort of the reporter. However, we acknowledge that you have chosen to share your experience publicly, enabling a level of transparency that exceeds our customary practices. We aim to address this matter openly and comprehensively for the benefit of our community.

We've published a document with the information we have regarding the incident, which can be viewed here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pisX16eMbas0xSm2ZFdBB6dbvvA2Vpm_GbUo9YX-670/edit?usp=sharing

I empathize with your experience and apologize for any distress that you have felt. Our site is meant to be a place of kindness and positivity, and engaging in behavior that falls short of that standard is never the goal of any staff member. Your feelings truly matter to us.

Tone can often be unclear or hard to read over text, potentially causing misunderstandings to escalate even when no ill will was intended. In this situation especially, many discussions appeared amicable and light-hearted, making it more challenging to discern the line between playful banter and discomfort. In line with this, it's very possible that the staff members involved may have misjudged your comfort level with the jokes and messages being made.

With all of these nuances in mind, it was difficult to come to a cut and dry decision over whether the behavior constituted formal action. Ultimately, we decided that because we couldn't discern malicious intent within the messages, it would be better to instead take proactive measures to prevent further harm being done: BEAR. and Lillith were instructed to refrain from engaging in similar discussions with you.

I hope this provides some helpful insight into our process and the rationale behind why certain actions were or were not taken. All of this is to say that your report was not dismissed, and all messages and actions related to the situation have been considered in our investigation and response.

We will continue to prioritize the safety of our members and fostering a positive roleplaying experience. As always, we encourage you and anyone with questions or concerns to please reach out to a staff member. Your thoughts and feedback are heard, valued, and taken seriously. Thank you for being a part of our community and for having these necessary conversations with us.

[Watermeloon]

RAAAH I AGREE! IF YOUR CAT GETS KILLED OR SMTH BY A HR, DON'T GO YELLING AT THEM! GHOSTPAW WAS MY FAVOURITE OC AND BUMBLE KILLED HER, BUT NOW I'M ALLOWING GHOST TO PEACEFULLY PLOT REVENGE IN THE DARK FOREST. (okay, I did tell Dino that I loved the scene bcuz it was so random but like-)

[Dakotaa]

Hey Sakura,

We appreciate you coming forward to add context to the input you've given in this thread.

Your posts outlining your personal experience have understandably raised worry within the community, particularly about the objectivity of our moderation process. I'd like to reassure you and our community that the staff team holds the well-being of our members in high regard and we approach reports of harassment with the utmost seriousness.

Our team primarily operates behind the scenes to respect the privacy and comfort of the reporter. However, we acknowledge that you have chosen to share your experience publicly, enabling a level of transparency that exceeds our customary practices. We aim to address this matter openly and comprehensively for the benefit of our community.

We've published a document with the information we have regarding the incident, which can be viewed here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pisX16eMbas0xSm2ZFdBB6dbvvA2Vpm_GbUo9YX-670/edit?usp=sharing

I empathize with your experience and apologize for any distress that you have felt. Our site is meant to be a place of kindness and positivity, and engaging in behavior that falls short of that standard is never the goal of any staff member. Your feelings truly matter to us.

Tone can often be unclear or hard to read over text, potentially causing misunderstandings to escalate even when no ill will was intended. In this situation especially, many discussions appeared amicable and light-hearted, making it more challenging to discern the line between playful banter and discomfort. In line with this, it's very possible that the staff members involved may have misjudged your comfort level with the jokes and messages being made.

With all of these nuances in mind, it was difficult to come to a cut and dry decision over whether the behavior constituted formal action. Ultimately, we decided that because we couldn't discern malicious intent within the messages, it would be better to instead take proactive measures to prevent further harm being done: BEAR. and Lillith were instructed to refrain from engaging in similar discussions with you.

I hope this provides some helpful insight into our process and the rationale behind why certain actions were or were not taken. All of this is to say that your report was not dismissed, and all messages and actions related to the situation have been considered in our investigation and response.

We will continue to prioritize the safety of our members and fostering a positive roleplaying experience. As always, we encourage you and anyone with questions or concerns to please reach out to a staff member. Your thoughts and feedback are heard, valued, and taken seriously. Thank you for being a part of our community and for having these necessary conversations with us.


Thank you <3

[Abyssopelagic]

It's been a good 2 or 3 years, but as someone who had a HR that ended up being controversial when I and the character ended up being the only HR from that Clan, I don't think we should put chaos plots to a complete halt, but should slow down on them while Bird and poppy are adjusting, especially ones that are going to make the other Clan's angry with the leader. Especially because all 3 Clan's seem to have some sort of vendetta against RiverClan's long replaced leaders and actions.

Edit: There are so many topics that have been brought up by this point, that I'm not sure I want to try to address everything being talked about and chose to simply give my own two cents about what, in my opinion, aside from taking a look at the day to day expectations of the HRs for what is essentially an unpaid job (not me yelling at Staff, I juat want non HRs to be aware that is how much effort is needed to go into these ranks, especially leader and deputy) would help ease potential stress for new HRs. Aside from OOC things, this is what I have pinpointed to what potentially could be causing the most stress and what we as a community could attempt to be mindful of when making our fun and silly plots.
Much love, hope this didn't come across as accusatory towards anyone :heartbounce:

[Bean]

hello, bean here
As all of you probably know, I have never been an offical hr, so take my words as a grain of salt.

A while back, I made alt SkC, which is what im using for my example. It is not a real hr, I know and understand that, but tbh it felt like it. A bit after Alt SkC got a catagory, I left. I never said the true reason why, until now.

Alt SkC was big, and it had so many members and so much chaos. At the time i was 10 coming on 11. But Im sure for everyone who was in my alt SkC, they know what I'm talking about. Again, It wasn't an official hr role, but with so many people and chaos it felt like it. Everyone was putting a lot of pressure on me, and with not many people to talk and go to, I couldn't take it all. There was so much stress on me to manage an Alternative clan. Alterantive !! I made it for fun, and yet what I made for fun turned into something that stressed me out so much I had to leave. I say I lost my computer, but in reality, the real reason was stress. There was only one other hr with me at the time, so I didn't really have anyone to go to for help, and I didn't want to bother people who didn't rp in Alt SkC to avoid looking like advertising. So many plots, Nobody to go to, Managing over 30 people in one clan, It was... too much.

Now what point am I trying to make? It was an alt clan, nothing like a real one! But the thing is if I mannaged to get stressed out with an Alternative Clan with less than 50 people, Just imagine what real Hrs have to go through. Regular Clans will probably have at least 100 cats, and more people too. They have to keep their character active while handling regular life and doing all the requirements that are needed and expected of them. If I managed to get stressed out with a fraction of what they do, I can only imagine how they feel.

Now some people are probably older and more experienced with me, but still. With so much stuff, it is easy to see why they would want to leave. From time to time, I will leave messages to both Hrs and Staff to say how much I appreciate them, because i really do. They combined make WCO possible and they shaped it into this amazing site we know today

To any hr, staff member, or anyone reading this, know that you are loved, and WCO would probably be different without you here. Do what is best for you, and always know that you are safe and loved here <33

[iliri]

i will be… making a statement here… at some point. just smacking a quiet placeholder right here until i edit this and put in some things that i personally have to say

[hades.]

I personally think that the next set of HRS should be decided via a vote by the clan

Edit: this post came out wrong so lemme explain it quickly. The recent HRS chosen have been people with 0 idea of what to do, and immediately started being criticized. There is going to be criticism. My idea of reducing that was to have the members choose so that was it wasn’t as… terrifying…
They weren't set up yo fail, they ere stressed out because people kept criticizing them, which isn't the selection's fault. That was because some of us were criticizing them instead of helping when asked

[SpiritWolf_yt]

I agree we all should be kinder, I understand the fact that being a HR can be stressful at times and the HR just wouldn’t like it if more stress came onto them. Even as a normal role player who isn’t a high rank can still get stress and would leave if people weren’t kind and thoughtful about how others think. The HR work so hard to keep the clans together and making sure ceremonies commences and deaths announced and the fact of dangers lurking in the territory, it’s a lot to take in and put together in a long post, and role playing can be stressful even typing out the announcement.

I just wanna say this first hand that I support all of you HRS your all amazing ppl who are behind the scenes taking the duty of leading a clan or healing the clan while also having to work with school or a job I fully respect everyone here and I’m always open to listen :)