Ashfur; Plain crazy, or Somewhat right?

[StealthWarrior]

We all know Ashfur, the gray tom who tries to kill Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather in the fire that destroys the camp. But his only crime, as admitted by Erin Hunter herself, was that he loved to much. He was distraught after Squirlflight left him for Brambleclaw, he really loved her, enough to make him go crazy with rage, he nurses the wounds on his heart, but he keeps rubbing salt in, so the deep love he once felt for Squirelflight has turned to a firey, smoke-filled, hate. While reading that part, you can see the manic expression on his face, the hate in his eyes, it's downright terrifying! Poor Ashfur, poor Leafpool, Love really does make us crazy.

[panchiko]

i mean i totally understand where ashfur was coming from but i think he's just the warrior cats version of the 'crazy ex' cliche. he's definitely not 100% in the wrong, but he did take it a bit far, dontcha think? squirrelflight moved on, ashfur didn't, and ashfur didn't like that. he still liked her. too bad. love might make you crazy, love might drive you to do good things, love might make you do inexcusable things. love is not supposed to make you attempt murder on multiple cats. love might be a 'powerful force' but it's sure as heck not an excuse.

i mean honestly i've always loved ashfur as a character but giving him excuses like "his love for squirrelflight drove him to do it" enables that behavior,,,,,,, which i think is exactly the opposite that should've happened with ashfur. nobody stopped him. they couldda exiled him, kicked him out, etc. instead, when they found out he was goin to go all full-blown hammy, but they didn't want bramble to know??? bramble technically has a right to know.... but, eh. the whole thing couldda been solved way more easily and with no murder.

loving too much isn't a crime. attempted murder is.

he would have been fine if he kept it all down inside, as difficult as that is. heck, he could've kep trying to get back with squirrelflight and bug her and hate her and love her and cry for her and all of the above, but try to kill someone? no.

he's not wrong, he's not right, he's not crazy, he's just reminiscent. he misses being with squirrelflight. i understand that. but what he did was literally not going to make squirrelflight love him?? which was his whole goal in the first place, i think --- get squirrelflight to love him back.

he's reminiscent of the times when he was with squirrelflight, but things would never be the same, and that's what i think ashfur was missing. he didn't understand that he couldn't have things be like they were in the past. i dont know. maybe i'm all just interpreting it wrong but although i feel bad for him, he's not in the right. understandable, for sure, but not right.

[StealthWarrior]

But keeping it on the inside would've only worked for a short time, then he would just push Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather into a river they can't escape from while Squirelflight was watching. And to me, this dude is a cat version of an overprotective Bf. He got jealous of her and Bramble, so he pushed her away, and she didn't keep trying to come back. He didn't know how to express his feelings so he dug his own grave deeper and deeper, literally and figurately cuz Hollyleaf murders him soon after he learns the truth. hope

[panchiko]

He didn't know how to express his feelings so
this is the part i think i kinda disagree with. you're totally not wrong! he didn't know how to express his feelings. however, i think that stemmed from him not understanding/knowing/being able to make sense of his feelings, or maybe just not accepting that he hadn't moved on yet & acknowledging bramble/holly/lion/jay as the causes for that. he didn't give himself enough time to accept that squirrelflight was over him and he wanted someone to blame that wasn't him.

he put the blame on holly & jay & lion, which screwed things up. don't get me wrong -- he definitely didn't deserve any blame. nobody deserved the blame. i think ashfur didn't get that people fall out of love all the time and it wasn't his fault, it wasn't holly's fault, it wasn't jay's fault, it wasn't lion's fault, it wasn't bramble's fault, it wasn't squirrel's fault. nobody was at fault, but ashfur needed somebody to blame because his heart was broken and he probably felt like his whole world had been torn from him.

yes, bottling up your feelings and holding them inside is definitely not a long-term solution for anything!! nobody should do that!! that being said, trying to murder multiple cats isn't a solution either. it would of only worked for a little while. i think ashfur did too much of that, honestly -- kept his feelings all hidden up inside the depths of his heart until he finally > snapped <. but. but. but. after he got sick of keeping his feelings inside, he should've gone through a more sane route. he didn't have to go immediately to murder. ashfur could've tried to reconcile, win squirrelflight over, maybe beg if he lost most of his dignity. he could've tried to move on, he could've tried to leave the clan if seeing bramble/squirrel together hurt him so much, he could've tried to join another clan, he could've tried to just completely ignore all of them, but.... his first plan of action was to try to kill the cats who were causing him pain. totally understandable, but not a great idea.

hollyleaf killed ashfur to protect the reputation of seven cats; herself, jayfeather, lionblaze, leafpool, brambleclaw/star, and crowfeather. she killed ashfur so that the clan wouldn't be split apart arguing over whether or not the 3 siblings & bramble &squirrel deserved to stay in the clan, and leafpool's whole life would've fallen apart.

ashfur tried to kill holly, jay, and lion because he was mad that his ex got over him.

maybe 'protecting reputations' isn't a valid reason to kill ashfur/anybody, but killing someone because they like someone else? that's not valid either. you can't control who you have feelings for.

i've said it once n i'll say it again, i've always loved ashfur as a character, he brought an interesting storyline and he was an interesting character, but he had a few... problems.

And to me, this dude is a cat version of an overprotective Bf
okay, i can definitely respect your opinion on that, but i have to ask... how do you view him as an overprotective boyfriend?

squirrelflight literally broke up with him, so they weren't dating anymore. the definition of overprotective is: "having a tendency to protect someone, especially a child, excessively."

i don't think that ashfur was being overprotective, i do agree he was definitely jealous. ashfur wasn't trying to protect squirrelflight, i think he was trying to protect himself -- from having his heart broken, from losing the 'love of his life', from the heartbreak of seeing your past love move on to you while you still have feelings for them.

an example of being an overprotective boyfriend with squirrelflight would be trying to pick a fight with anyone who talks to her, for example. the closest definition for a 'crazy ex' would be someone who you've dated, broken up with, and then they do something wild/crazy in retaliation. i personally think ashfur fits the second definition more, since from what i remember, they were mates, she broke up with him, and he tried to kill people (something crazy/wild) after she broke up with him.

he was scared of losing her, so he got desperate, and desperate times call for desperate measures. he took that saying a bit extreme.

[~Berry~]

Ashfur is crazy and he loved to much

[StealthWarrior]

he was scared of losing her, so he got desperate, and desperate times call for desperate measures. he took that saying a bit extreme.

I agree with that. He felt like he had no one by his side anymore, Squirelflight meant so much to him, and now she pulled away? He went through a sort of a withdrawal, yeah, he went kinda crazy, yeah, Hollyleaf murdered him, but did you consider the fact the Squirelflight never got over him either? He was always somewhere in her mind. She cared about him, as a friend, as a mate, it didn't matter, she was friends with him, though it may have been one-sided at one point.

[Sneakyfox55]

i believe Ashfur was justified at one point in being a bit upset, but?? murdering your ex-crush's kits??? no sir

(still prefer him over Bramble tho)

i have more sympathy for Squirrel and Leaf; poor things, they were just thrown into a bad situation all around. they could have handled it a little better, especially Leaf, but still

[~Berry~]

I prefer Bramblestar any day. He is one of my favorite cats

[panchiko]

I agree with that. He felt like he had no one by his side anymore, Squirelflight meant so much to him, and now she pulled away? He went through a sort of a withdrawal, yeah, he went kinda crazy, yeah, Hollyleaf murdered him, but did you consider the fact the Squirelflight never got over him either? He was always somewhere in her mind. She cared about him, as a friend, as a mate, it didn't matter, she was friends with him, though it may have been one-sided at one point.

it definitely sucked that ashfur cared so much for a cat just to have her reject him like she did, over another guy no less. he probably felt like he'd lost everything. howeverrrr:

squirrelflight might've always had him somewhere in her mind, yes. that's most likely due to the fact that he was (i believe) her first love, or at least her first mate. you don't just forget about that kind of person, even if you grow to dislike him. and while yes, she might've never fully gotten over him, but she didn't love him back. she chose bramble over ash, and that should've been that.

she cared about him. yes. she did. as a mate, as friends, etc. however, ashfur always wanted more. he'd always liked her, especially after she returned from the sundrown place. i think him and squirrelflight could've been friends if 1. he hadn't tried to murder her/leafpool's kids and 2. ashfur was okay with that. he'd always been somewhere in her mind but in the end squirrelflight did choose brambleclaw/star and ashfur should've accepted that and moved on.

you can't always get what you want in life, and i guess ashfur was mad about that. he loved her, he gave his time to her, he cared for her, and she ended up choosing someone else. perfectly fine to be mad about, but it's disrespectful to squirrelflight to do what he did. feelings aren't controllable, and squirrelflight liking bramble more had nothing to do with ashfur. the problem was that ashfur took that personal.

what i take away from this is that nobody is technically '100% in the wrong' but that the whole situation sucked & was unfortunate. it was unwinnable. something was bound to go wrong.

i believe Ashfur was justified at one point in being a bit upset, but?? murdering your ex-crush's kits??? no sir
THIS
being mad and angry and butthurt and having your heart ache would've been a justifiable reaction, but trying to murder someone's kids because they have feelings for someone else?? a little too far..

[StealthWarrior]

Indeed. Are you like a pro argument essay writer or something? Yo good. But Ashfur wouldn't have died if A. He accepted that Squirelflight loved Bramble, he could be mad, but he would move on, forget her. B. Hadn't tried to literally murder[ her/Leafpools kits. Get it together dude.

[Sneakyfox55]

it definitely sucked that ashfur cared so much for a cat just to have her reject him like she did, over another guy no less. he probably felt like he'd lost everything. howeverrrr:

squirrelflight might've always had him somewhere in her mind, yes. that's most likely due to the fact that he was (i believe) her first love, or at least her first mate. you don't just forget about that kind of person, even if you grow to dislike him. and while yes, she might've never fully gotten over him, but she didn't love him back. she chose bramble over ash, and that should've been that.

she cared about him. yes. she did. as a mate, as friends, etc. however, ashfur always wanted more. he'd always liked her, especially after she returned from the sundrown place. i think him and squirrelflight could've been friends if 1. he hadn't tried to murder her/leafpool's kids and 2. ashfur was okay with that. he'd always been somewhere in her mind but in the end squirrelflight did choose brambleclaw/star and ashfur should've accepted that and moved on.

you can't always get what you want in life, and i guess ashfur was mad about that. he loved her, he gave his time to her, he cared for her, and she ended up choosing someone else. perfectly fine to be mad about, but it's disrespectful to squirrelflight to do what he did. feelings aren't controllable, and squirrelflight liking bramble more had nothing to do with ashfur. the problem was that ashfur took that personal.

what i take away from this is that nobody is technically '100% in the wrong' but that the whole situation sucked & was unfortunate. it was unwinnable. something was bound to go wrong.


THIS
being mad and angry and butthurt and having your heart ache would've been a justifiable reaction, but trying to murder someone's kids because they have feelings for someone else?? a little too far..

oof yeah

[Cobra]

ahh hmmm

seriously he got as low as



c'mon dude! thats so lame, i mean

"]

StealthWarrior hope Sneakyfox55

[panchiko]

Indeed. Are you like a pro argument essay writer or something? Yo good. But Ashfur wouldn't have died if A. He accepted that Squirelflight loved Bramble, he could be mad, but he would move on, forget her. B. Hadn't tried to literally murder[ her/Leafpools kits. Get it together dude.

imma assuming youre talking to me [wow i sound self-absorbed lol] but if not pFTT this is so embarassing lmao aa,,,, but thank you <3 honestly i just love arguing/debating/talking about my opinion and i just write a bit of a lot of words because i ramble/that's how my thought process works lol,,,, but seriously thank you :heartbounce: and YES, exactlyyyy. i mean, i know there's no 'off-button' for feelings or anything but he could've just made an effort to move on. he didn't even try -- though i get that, he was probably too hung up on squirrel to try to move on just yet.
c'mon dude! thats so lame, i mean
honestly i wouldn't call it lame -- he's just lonely. loneliness can make people desperate and it's just a last-minute attempt for ashfur to remember what it was like for squirrelflight to love him back. kinda feel bad for him but he's just trying his hardest to live in the past & get squirrel to like him again and he'll do anything to achieve that, such as ((possibly??)) impersonating squirrel's mate but yeah -- you're not wrong!

[Cobra]

no


He impersonated bramble

hope

[panchiko]

no


He impersonated bramble

hope


OH YES YOU'RE RIGHT PFFF sorry im sleepy its like 10pm and im living off like 5 hours of sleep pfffff
other than that though i think my point would still stand

[Cobra]

here its almost 1

hope

[lucidense]

I feel like Ashfur wanted Squirrel to feel the pain he caused her, which caused him to go to far. But in the end, he thought he was in the right by revealing the secret, as he said that she was a traitor and deserved this. That could possibly be why he winded up in starclan, sort of like mudclaw. hope Cobralily StealthWarrior