Opions on Pitbulls

[ThePiffle]

I have to do a school debate project on pit bulls. I have decided to keep them around, but have some laws surrounding them. Such as the spaying/neturing of the breed, licence in order to care and house the breed, and maybe a limit to how many pit bulls per home. None of this is final. I'll take any information, for or against the breed.


Have fun, debate each other in the comments maybe? Respectfully of course.

[WarriorzFan]

Pitties are actually very good natured dogs, as most people who don't solely base their opinions on dog fight stereotypes do. Most pitbulls who are agressive are usually mentally scarred from their time in the illegal rings and the pain of training (If you've watched White Fang(1991), you might remember what I mean.) You can usually tell this because they could be physically scarred as well. Either that, or they are new rescues, and mind you, rescuing is a noble act and you should do that and not buy from some guy that keeps dogs in cages until breeding day on EBay, but don't attempt to get too friendly unless you are someone who spends time around them a lot, like people at kennels.

I'm not saying that to scare you, but It's true. Same for Germans (Not Germans as in the people, as in German Shepherds, the dogs.) as well as Great Danes, although most of them are gentle. Almost all of them. Bear in mind, Gentle is still dangerous in this case because if a fully grown one tried to jump up on you for a hug it would be like your Dad tackling you to the floor.

Back to the topic, Pittie Bois have high energy and a lot of it is pent up, so exercise them regularly, as Symptoms of chronic anxiety can develop. As for spaying/neutering, multiple sources say you should do it from 5-9 months and never before due to possible complications with health. There no laws stating you have to spay, but it is quite recommended. There are many benefits to doing this, most noticeably a reduction of aggressive behavior. For non-dog people, It's basically what would have been seen if Rusty went to the Cutter.

This also blocks more pets in your dog's, in this case a Pit, bloodline to be able to be born. Therefore, it has the added bonus of not creating anymore homeless dogs. Next, It reduces chance of health issues such as cancer.
Lastly, like there is no limit to how many cats you can have, which is why Cat Ladies exist, there is no limit to how many dogs you can have. It all depends on if you can take care of them or not, buying food and water, as well as walk them and clear their medical bills. So, if you are working at a McDonalds and are in college, probably not a good idea.

Thanks for giving me the chance to flex my fingers!

@InsertCoolNameHere

[Pitou]

If you're interested, I did my college research paper on pit bulls. Personally I disagree with basically everything you said >< (at least as far as singling out pit bulls specifically). I can probably send you everything I had gathered. The research is now a bit old but it's all still relevant. @InsertCoolNameHere

[ThePiffle]

Thank you so much Ravensong, yeah, my opinions are a bit bias since most of my research was from anti-pit bull articles. I believe, since pit bulls were technically bred for fighting they need to be trained properly since selective breeding can cause them to show less of a warning sign before attacking (just my research, not a fact I don't think.) but I know that pitties can be sweet and lovable dogs. As well as the fact "pit bull" is an umbrella term, and dog bite statistics include every single breed, pure bred and mixed. I also think that pit bull attacks are reported more because they are a more powerful dog breed. Sorry for the disorganization, and yes, it'd be nice if you helped.

@Ravensong

[WarriorzFan]

Oh, and lastly, Pitbulls have nothing on one of the smallest breeds of all time, the Chihuahua, in terms of agressiveness. In Legally Blonde, Bruiser, Ell's dog, is named that for a reason, dontcha think? I'll let you dwell on that. Honestly, It's easy to see why, and I sympathize with the little guys/gals. Being one of the smallest breeds out there means we as humans are monstrously tall, the dog at full height probably not reaching the knee if we were sitting on a couch. This means that everything else is bigger. That's really scary. Imagine a hand the size of your upper torso plus head going towards you.

[beau]

ooh, so this is an interesting topic! from my understanding, pit bulls are considered a dangerous breed, but that is a whole can of worms (plenty of other breeds are considered dangerous that you don't hear nearly as much about, such as rhodesian ridgebacks, which were literally bred to hunt lions). this does not mean pit bulls individually are inherently dangerous, but some caution does have to be exercised with the breed (bear in mind there is still debate about what makes a pit bull a pit bull, as the guidelines to the breed are iffy, with the only formal pit bull breed being an american pit bull terrier - which I have a mix-breed with a lot of apbt in him, as well as american bull dog!)

the guidelines you've stated (spay/neuter, license, etc.) aren't necessarily bad ideas, but, as Ravensong stated above, they definitely should not be applied to only pit bulls. in fact, you could make an argument for these kinds of guidelines to be placed on all breeds, or at least high energy or aggressive prone breeds. spaying and neutering should be done with all pets, unless you are a licensed breeder who knows how to safely and ethically breed your animals. introducing a license is an interesting concept, but there are many details that would have to be finalized (what breeds does a license apply to? how do you decide which breeds are dangerous enough to require a license? do these licenses need to be renewed? etc, etc.) a limit on the number of animals should, again, not only be applied to pit bulls. a ton of places have a limit on the number of animals you can own - which is a great thing! it helps prevent people taking on more animals than they can handle, and keeps the animals in safe homes where they can receive a proper amount of attention and care. basically, people need to research dog breeds before investing in them, pit bulls included. unfortunately, it is far too easy for someone to impulsively get a dog (or any animal) with highly specific needs that they cannot adequately meet, which then results in said animal developing anxiety issues, aggression problems, and generally becoming difficult to handle.

tldr: spay/neuter all your pets. it's kind of iffy what even can be considered a pit bull. licenses sound good in theory, but would be difficult to execute. there should definitely be a limit on the animals you own. please, please, please, please do your research before getting any kind of animal, whether it's "simple" like a beta fish, or difficult to care for like a horse.

I would be more than happy to continue this discourse or elaborate any of my points if needed, and am completely open to any counter-arguments! there is so much to this topic, and plenty of other interesting things to be brought up, but I didn't want this to turn into an essay haha

[WarriorzFan]

Originally Posted by Atticus

I think pitbulls are amazing and should be treated with the love, care, and respect they deserve. People forget that all dogs were once wolves, and all dogs still have some sort of fighting instict. It just gets shown in different ways from dog to dog. There certainly needs to be a lot of laws regarding dog fighting as a whole and eradicating it, not simply focusing on a single breed in a feeble attempt to end a barbaric 'sport'. I have a lot to say on this subject since I adore pitties haha ^^

Correct. Big Correct Words from the Big Correct Man. Dogfighting is supposed to be done in planes. (Get it?)

[ThePiffle]

Originally Posted by WarriorzFan

Pitties are actually very good natured dogs, as most people who don't solely base their opinions on dog fight stereotypes do. Most pitbulls who are agressive are usually mentally scarred from their time in the illegal rings and the pain of training (If you've watched White Fang(1991), you might remember what I mean.) You can usually tell this because they could be physically scarred as well. Either that, or they are new rescues, and mind you, rescuing is a noble act and you should do that and not buy from some guy that keeps dogs in cages until breeding day on EBay, but don't attempt to get too friendly unless you are someone who spends time around them a lot, like people at kennels.

I'm not saying that to scare you, but It's true. Same for Germans (Not Germans as in the people, as in German Shepherds, the dogs.) as well as Great Danes, although most of them are gentle. Almost all of them. Bear in mind, Gentle is still dangerous in this case because if a fully grown one tried to jump up on you for a hug it would be like your Dad tackling you to the floor.

Back to the topic, Pittie Bois have high energy and a lot of it is pent up, so exercise them regularly, as Symptoms of chronic anxiety can develop. As for spaying/neutering, multiple sources say you should do it from 5-9 months and never before due to possible complications with health. There no laws stating you have to spay, but it is quite recommended. There are many benefits to doing this, most noticeably a reduction of aggressive behavior. For non-dog people, It's basically what would have been seen if Rusty went to the Cutter.

This also blocks more pets in your dog's, in this case a Pit, bloodline to be able to be born. Therefore, it has the added bonus of not creating anymore homeless dogs. Next, It reduces chance of health issues such as cancer.
Lastly, like there is no limit to how many cats you can have, which is why Cat Ladies exist, there is no limit to how many dogs you can have. It all depends on if you can take care of them or not, buying food and water, as well as walk them and clear their medical bills. So, if you are working at a McDonalds and are in college, probably not a good idea.

Thanks for giving me the chance to flex my fingers!

@InsertCoolNameHere

Thanks, sorry for the unprofessional intro, you have amazing points.

[ThePiffle]

Originally Posted by Naiad

ooh, so this is an interesting topic! from my understanding, pit bulls are considered a dangerous breed, but that is a whole can of worms (plenty of other breeds are considered dangerous that you don't hear nearly as much about, such as rhodesian ridgebacks, which were literally bred to hunt lions). this does not mean pit bulls individually are inherently dangerous, but some caution does have to be exercised with the breed (bear in mind there is still debate about what makes a pit bull a pit bull, as the guidelines to the breed are iffy, with the only formal pit bull breed being an american pit bull terrier - which I have a mix-breed with a lot of apbt in him, as well as american bull dog!)

the guidelines you've stated (spay/neuter, license, etc.) aren't necessarily bad ideas, but, as Ravensong stated above, they definitely should not be applied to only pit bulls. in fact, you could make an argument for these kinds of guidelines to be placed on all breeds, or at least high energy or aggressive prone breeds. spaying and neutering should be done with all pets, unless you are a licensed breeder who knows how to safely and ethically breed your animals. introducing a license is an interesting concept, but there are many details that would have to be finalized (what breeds does a license apply to? how do you decide which breeds are dangerous enough to require a license? do these licenses need to be renewed? etc, etc.) a limit on the number of animals should, again, not only be applied to pit bulls. a ton of places have a limit on the number of animals you can own - which is a great thing! it helps prevent people taking on more animals than they can handle, and keeps the animals in safe homes where they can receive a proper amount of attention and care. basically, people need to research dog breeds before investing in them, pit bulls included. unfortunately, it is far too easy for someone to impulsively get a dog (or any animal) with highly specific needs that they cannot adequately meet, which then results in said animal developing anxiety issues, aggression problems, and generally becoming difficult to handle.

tldr: spay/neuter all your pets. it's kind of iffy what even can be considered a pit bull. licenses sound good in theory, but would be difficult to execute. there should definitely be a limit on the animals you own. please, please, please, please do your research before getting any kind of animal, whether it's "simple" like a beta fish, or difficult to care for like a horse.

I would be more than happy to continue this discourse or elaborate any of my points if needed, and am completely open to any counter-arguments! there is so much to this topic, and plenty of other interesting things to be brought up, but I didn't want this to turn into an essay haha

I do feel pit bulls get a bad rap, although my heart goes out to all the attack victims, it is, in the end, not the animals fault but the humans. While I do suppose euthanasia after a deadly attack should be inflicted, it's not all black and white. While technically bred for fighting, they guarded children and herded cattle. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the US dog population they are responsible for 68% of reported attacks. Key word. REPORTED. Because of the breeds powerful and stubbornness their attacks will most likely be reported. While as little bites from a corgi will go unnoticed. Pit bulls are also abused more than other dogs, and if you adopt one from a shelter there is a chance it could have been abused, and all dogs react differently to abuse, though not all exhibit aggressive behavior. I believe that all owners should be educated on the breed and their types of aggressive behavior, in fact all dog owners should. As soon as your dog begins to start showing aggressive behavior, it would be wise to seek professional help. In the end, if your not prepared nor have enough money you should not be getting a dog breed that needs this much care.


Would someone mind explaining to me why pit bulls seem to sometimes "turn on" people with supposedly no sign of aggression?

[Pitou]

I agree it is difficult to find any sources that are not either pro or con since pits are such a controversial topics so it can easily skew research. The trick is to learn how to vet sources and do research into how certain numbers and statistics were developed. Anything that includes "less warning" is generally biased. The reason you see headlines like "attacked without warning" or "just turned" it has nothing to do with the dog and everything to do with the owner not being able to understand their dog's excessive body language (very apparent with how many animal videos are out there of people blatantly disregarding their dog's warning signs).

The fighting argument: Pit bull-type dogs tend to be naturally dog aggressive with a high prey drive exactly for their history in being bred as fighting dogs, they also tend to have a very high pain tolerance. On the flip side, since they were being bred to be strong and deadly, the last thing a handler wanted was a dog that would bite them. A dog that bit its owner was generally killed and thus their bloodline had less opportunity to be passed down. The other practice of note, these handlers would reach in between two fighting dogs to pull them apart, all the while expecting to not get bit (very few dog fights were ever actually to the death). All of this has actually made a dog today that is far LESS likely to show human aggression and even less so any owner-directed aggression.

They can be sweet and lovable dogs just as any breed can in the proper environments (*proper environments* is exactly why I disagree with any sort of legislation being breed specific, all dogs have the same capability of being "bad" and all have the same capability of being "good" if put in the appropriate environment with appropriate expectations). Yes, dog bite statistics are incredibly unreliable for exactly what you mentions. Many studies have been done that show basically every medium to large dog with short hair who bites somebody is labeled a pit bull by the media because of their unfair reputation. Even shelters frequently mislabel dog breeds. Lab mixes and boxer mixes(along with a few other breeds but those two are the most common)also develop that thick, wide skull that is often associate with bully breeds, even if the dog has NO bully in it. And as you mentioned, "pit bull" includes a few different breeds including APBT, Staffy, American bull dog. Those are all distinctly different breeds. If you were to take German Shepherds, Rottweillers, and Dobermans and count all of their recorded bites and make the statistics as though they were one breed then they would have an insanely high bite rate as well (probably even far more than "pit bull"). And yes, large dogs are more likely to have their bites reported as they do more damage.

I'll dig up my research and link it
@WarriorzFan
Chihuahuas are not naturally aggressive dogs and their size has little to do with their temperament (other than it being a factor in how humans treat them). Chihuahuas are a naturally fearful breed (as is the German Shepherd) and they are CONSTANTLY having their warning signs ignored because a snarling Chihuahua is much less intimidating than a snarling pit/rottie/GSD. If you're constantly being ignored then you will continue to become more adamant until you're listened to. Perpetually ignoring a dog while they tell you they're uncomfortable also leads to developed high anxiety which perpetuates their fear. Chihuahuas actually don't have a higher rate of aggression than German Shepherds, GSDs are just given less opportunity to act on that aggression as they can do real damage. Actually Chihuahuas are rather intelligent dogs and one of the most naturally loyal breeds of dogs. They just suffer from the same infliction as pits and GSDs in that they are common breeds with too many owners who are not meeting that specific dog's needs.