Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
In my opinion, Yes, he appreciates Squirrelflight much much much much MUCH more than Bramblestar. I feel like at most if Squirrelflight loved him back, he’d be overprotective. Not losing it and going all crazy-killer-insane over her, because he knows she loves him
Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
This is gonna be a mouthful and probably wont make much sense, so read with a grain of salt.
I honestly dislike both of them as an option for her mate. While Ashfur would've probably not been yk a psychopathic murderer if the two of them became mates he was still trying to become mates with her under the wrong intentions. I don't think he ever actually loved her, I think he had such an unhealthy obsession that he thought it was a strong feeling of love, where as he was actually an unhinged cat willing to destroy the clans if something didn't go his way, a bit like an insane, murderous, entitled child. As for Bramblestar the two of them started off fine, but it quickly turned into a toxic relationship built on a power dynamic and distrust, and that lead to domestic violence and verbal abuse.
as for who would've been the better father to her kits, it probably would've been Bramblestar. Let me explain my thinking here; still comparing Ashfur to an entitled child he'd probably use their kits as a way to manipulate Squirrelflight into doing what he wants, similar to how he manipulated Shadowsight. He'd probably threaten to hurt them to get to her, hell, he might even have gone so far as killing one of them in front of her. He wouldn't have cared if they were his kits or not, as long as Squirrelflight cared about them he could use them to his advantage. (We can actually see a demo of this during the fire scene, he was threatening to kill the three until she told him that she couldn't care less if they died because they weren't her children, at which point he backed off and let them go because killing the three would no longer give him any leverage over her.) While Bramblestar didn't really care about any of his kits after it was revealed that the three weren't his, he never used them as leverage against Squirrelflight, he'd actually stop abusing Squirrelflight when she was expecting (which is kinda worse in a way?). Anyways, this is just my opinion, and seeing as Ashfur was never the father to any of her kits we can't know for sure how he'd act, all we can do is theorise.
So no, I don't think that Ashfur would've been a better mate, I think that he and Bramblestar would've been around the same level in the 'bad dad/husband' category, neither is better than the other. (yet again, just my opinion)
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Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo.
This is gonna be a mouthful and probably wont make much sense, so read with a grain of salt.
I honestly dislike both of them as an option for her mate. While Ashfur would've probably not been yk a psychopathic murderer if the two of them became mates he was still trying to become mates with her under the wrong intentions. I don't think he ever actually loved her, I think he had such an unhealthy obsession that he thought it was a strong feeling of love, where as he was actually an unhinged cat willing to destroy the clans if something didn't go his way, a bit like an insane, murderous, entitled child. As for Bramblestar the two of them started off fine, but it quickly turned into a toxic relationship built on a power dynamic and distrust, and that lead to domestic violence and verbal abuse.
as for who would've been the better father to her kits, it probably would've been Bramblestar. Let me explain my thinking here; still comparing Ashfur to an entitled child he'd probably use their kits as a way to manipulate Squirrelflight into doing what he wants, similar to how he manipulated Shadowsight. He'd probably threaten to hurt them to get to her, hell, he might even have gone so far as killing one of them in front of her. He wouldn't have cared if they were his kits or not, as long as Squirrelflight cared about them he could use them to his advantage. (We can actually see a demo of this during the fire scene, he was threatening to kill the three until she told him that she couldn't care less if they died because they weren't her children, at which point he backed off and let them go because killing the three would no longer give him any leverage over her.) While Bramblestar didn't really care about any of his kits after it was revealed that the three weren't his, he never used them as leverage against Squirrelflight, he'd actually stop abusing Squirrelflight when she was expecting (which is kinda worse in a way?). Anyways, this is just my opinion, and seeing as Ashfur was never the father to any of her kits we can't know for sure how he'd act, all we can do is theorise.
So no, I don't think that Ashfur would've been a better mate, I think that he and Bramblestar would've been around the same level in the 'bad dad/husband' category, neither is better than the other. (yet again, just my opinion)
You make a really great point! I see how these can just kind of tie into the series without too much personality change! While Ashfur is my fav villain, simply because of how he executed his plan in the broken code, I’d definitely say you’re right without effort
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Last edited by Caspian; July 19th, 2023 at 12:43 AM.
Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
Honestly tbh at this point BOTH ARE BAD OPTIONS OML Buuuuuuut pre reveal to the three bramble wasnt half bad to our lady squirrelly and the kiddos but post that? dog water.
My main issue with bramble is he swings widly on his action depending on the main writer for the book because he was bad during the squirrel ash flirtation period and post three parentage reveal. And will probably continue that trend if the latest books are an indication.
HOWEVER. Any ideas people might have that ash wouldve been a better mate is pure fiction imo. Rereading the books about when squirrel was actually receptive to him he did a lot of..... Not cool stuff. Quietly sure more quiet then brambles 'issues' at that time but still not cool. I cant go into details this late at night because tired but as an adult with experience in relationships now its glaring.
As for the direct question..... Ash might be a better mate, kinda if only in direct comparison with bad husband bramble but I agree with apollo that bramble was by far a better dad. To everyone but alder. Poor alder.
I cant agree that ash for sure wouldnt have found some banal reason to snap and gone crazy. Hes always been unstable looking back at his character so this kinda feels fitting for him.
Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
We see Ashfur goes down that Psycho path. And sooner or later, if Squirrelflight was his mate, he would snap. Going down that same path. And for the most part, Bramblestar loved Squirrelflight, just the stress of being leader made it hard for him to be with his mate as much as he wanted to, also making it seem like he didn't care for her. And if it seemed like in the later books, he was being controlled in TBC, BY ASHFUR, so uh yeah.
ALSO ASHFUR IS CONSIDERABLY OLDER THAN SQUIRRELFLIGHT, Ashfur was already an APRRENTICE, nearing WARRIOR by the time Bramblestar was BORN, who was already like 5-9 moons older than Squirrelflight!
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Last edited by LostInTheOrchids; July 19th, 2023 at 09:47 PM.
Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
I really think that Brambleclaw would've been a better cat/mate to Squirrelflight if he'd stayed like the character he was in the first 3ish books of The New Prophecy, and I have a theory that his brother Hawkfrost somehow played a role in changing his personality. In fact, right at the start of book 4, in the timescale of only a few chapters, Brambleclaw has a dramatic personality change, starting the moment Hawkfrost first speaks to him in a friendly way. In the book, it says: To his surprise, there was a friendly gleam in the RiverClan warrior’s blue eyes. “Thanks for finding the new territories, Brambleclaw,” he meowed. “I’m almost sorry that we’ll be going our separate ways now. I’d have liked to hunt with you." Then Squirrelflight gets cross at him and growls him for talking to Hawkfrost, making Brambleclaw lash out unfairly. “Or are you accusing him because of who his father was?” (Brambleclaw says.) Squirrelflight’s green eyes stretched wide. “If that’s what you think, then you don’t know me at all!” she hissed. After that fight, Squirrelflight and Ashfur immediatly begin to grow closer. Ashfur, though, is like a spoiled child, but worse; he doesn't treat Squirrelflight like another cat, but more like a pretty object or toy that Brambleclaw has and he desperatly wants for himself, and he drives himself to madness trying to get it, which is the most unhealthy structure for a relationship possible. Brambleclaw, though, knows and most of the time respects Squirrelflight for being another cat with her own opinions, but also most of the time he ignores them. So, if you ask me, neither would be a good mate at all - Squirrelflight really had terrible luck with toms. Also, Brambleclaw would be a better father in my opinion, though I wouldn't reccomend it (too late).
Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo.
This is gonna be a mouthful and probably wont make much sense, so read with a grain of salt.
I honestly dislike both of them as an option for her mate. While Ashfur would've probably not been yk a psychopathic murderer if the two of them became mates he was still trying to become mates with her under the wrong intentions. I don't think he ever actually loved her, I think he had such an unhealthy obsession that he thought it was a strong feeling of love, where as he was actually an unhinged cat willing to destroy the clans if something didn't go his way, a bit like an insane, murderous, entitled child. As for Bramblestar the two of them started off fine, but it quickly turned into a toxic relationship built on a power dynamic and distrust, and that lead to domestic violence and verbal abuse.
as for who would've been the better father to her kits, it probably would've been Bramblestar. Let me explain my thinking here; still comparing Ashfur to an entitled child he'd probably use their kits as a way to manipulate Squirrelflight into doing what he wants, similar to how he manipulated Shadowsight. He'd probably threaten to hurt them to get to her, hell, he might even have gone so far as killing one of them in front of her. He wouldn't have cared if they were his kits or not, as long as Squirrelflight cared about them he could use them to his advantage. (We can actually see a demo of this during the fire scene, he was threatening to kill the three until she told him that she couldn't care less if they died because they weren't her children, at which point he backed off and let them go because killing the three would no longer give him any leverage over her.) While Bramblestar didn't really care about any of his kits after it was revealed that the three weren't his, he never used them as leverage against Squirrelflight, he'd actually stop abusing Squirrelflight when she was expecting (which is kinda worse in a way?). Anyways, this is just my opinion, and seeing as Ashfur was never the father to any of her kits we can't know for sure how he'd act, all we can do is theorise.
So no, I don't think that Ashfur would've been a better mate, I think that he and Bramblestar would've been around the same level in the 'bad dad/husband' category, neither is better than the other. (yet again, just my opinion)
Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
No one ashfur likes would ever die, and if Squirrelflights right, Bramblestar would get over it and nothing would go completely wrong. Plus, Bramblestar could have made a more thought-through choice of deputy.
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Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
None would be a better mate they both treat Squirrelflight like trash some way or other. Bramblestar is probably a better dad, however. But that's still not enough for him to qualify as a good mate. I'm sorry, Squirrelflight.
Especially since after he was unpossessed, Bramblestar's even worse. Might as well have just stayed a possessed guy
Re: Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
The amount of Bramblestar hate has reached almost bizarre levels in this thread- yes, he's a terrible guy, but cmon. At least he didn't try to kill Squirrelflight and the three.
Let's look at it this way. Even if Ashfur was Squirrelflight's mate, when he eventually finds out that the three are not in fact his kits and that Squirrelflight was lying to him, he'd flip out. Even Bramblestar was extremely angry(I say even because normally he's a pretty level-headed cat), so imagine what Ashfur would've done.
Do we think Ashfur would be a better mate/father than Bramblestar?
