Is Mapleshade Evil or Misunderstood?

[FadingEchoes]

I'm really curious what you guys have to say.

[wickedvirtues]

Well, she did kill a cat (Apple-something), and kinda-sorta ruin Crookedstar's life, but her Clan banished her AND her kits! (Wth?) Her kits died, her mate abandoned her, so I say..both.

[FadingEchoes]

Well, she did kill a cat (Apple-something), and kinda-sorta ruin Crookedstar's life, but her Clan banished her AND her kits! (Wth?) Her kits died, her mate abandoned her, so I say..both.
Interesting insight, I basically think the same thing.
SPOILERS FOR MAPLESHADE'S VENGEANCE, BLUESTAR'S PROPHECY AND CROOKEDSTAR'S PROMISE
While she did put her kits in danger, it wasn't her fault.(I would blame Bluestar for Mosskit rather than Mapleshade for her kits.) Her clan made her AND her kits leave, while it wasn't the kits' fault. And then Appledusk was a jerk and totally abandoned her at Riverclan.
She did kill Appledusk, Ravenwing, and Frecklewish while she was alive. And basically all of Crookedstar's friends and family.

[wickedvirtues]

Interesting insight, I basically think the same thing.
SPOILERS FOR MAPLESHADE'S VENGEANCE, BLUESTAR'S PROPHECY AND CROOKEDSTAR'S PROMISE
While she did put her kits in danger, it wasn't her fault.(I would blame Bluestar for Mosskit rather than Mapleshade for her kits.) Her clan made her AND her kits leave, while it wasn't the kits' fault. And then Appledusk was a jerk and totally abandoned her at Riverclan.
She did kill Appledusk, Ravenwing, and Frecklewish while she was alive. And basically all of Crookedstar's friends and family.

So we agree that her life sucked but she did some awful things pretty much, so she's a mix.

[FadingEchoes]

So we agree that her life sucked but she did some awful things pretty much, so she's a mix.
Yeah. I'm surprised we haven't had anyone say she was completely misunderstood.

[wickedvirtues]

Yeah. I'm surprised we haven't had anyone say she was completely misunderstood.
Hm, yeah..guess we'll just have to wait :3

[Crow]

it's.. sort of hard to deny she was a murderer. she did kill cats, and even if her life was hard, that doesn't excuse anything. that said, i believe she didn't actually kill those cats in crooked's life- that's what i've heard, anyway.

[BEAR.]

it's.. sort of hard to deny she was a murderer. she did kill cats, and even if her life was hard, that doesn't excuse anything. that said, i believe she didn't actually kill those cats in crooked's life- that's what i've heard, anyway.

She didn't touch them. Mapleshade was aware of their early deaths and used her knowledge to manipulate Crookedstar into thinking she was the cause.

[Burnpaw]

It's almost a grief that sent her Spiraling into insanity... A little bit of both, a little bit of neither, and a lot of mental health issues...

[wren]

Well-
You see I know little about mapleshade cause I haven't got around to reading much about her. Any who despite my poor insight on the situation, I believe she wasn't in fact evil, that's how we like to see her though. They are all good cats, some just do evil things. She was once a young cat, she was once innocent, her personality was who she was and believe nothing about that is evil. Like humans none of us where born evil, none if us knew from the age if three we were going to be 'evil' I believe [ from how I view life ] she is misunderstood, if given the chance or if none if the events in her life occurred I would imagine she would have been a good cat. It's not like those troubling times in her life were a valid reason to end up murdering cats, no. I'm just simply saying she made bad choices and ended up in the dark forest. There was something else that she could have become instead of what did happen.

[Tazzy]

Shes not really evil. Her kits dying messed her up a bit then her mate pretty much blaming her and giving her the cold shoulder pushed her over the edge. She went crazy and due to that craziness she hallucinated and thought taking revenge and killing would put her kits to rest. Shes not evil just whacked.

[FadingEchoes]

wowthisgotmorepopularthanIthoughtitwould.

[Mango]

(I’m hoping when I voted no that meant misunderstood?)
She was in depression. No one makes logical decisions in depression. She’s my child. Don’t call my child evil! *hisses*

[Mystic]

Maple shade got kicked out of her clan by becoming mates with a cat from another clan but leafpool had a mate from another clan but doesn't kicked out!

[Bandido]

:tonguegif:Maple shade got kicked out of her clan by becoming mates with a cat from another clan but leafpool had a mate from another clan but doesn't kicked out!

Leafpool was never banished from ThunderClan because her relationship was never discovered. And Leafpool was not born during that time, so a leader's reaction wouldn't be the same as Oakstar's.

[sNazzy]

I think that murder can never be forgiven, but she had just been caught into a relationship with Appledusk and then she was banished and soon her kits were dead. She was in so much grief she went a little crazy trying deal with her situation. I do believe that she lost hope of a second chance after manipulating Crookedkit, -star, -paw, but she had just gone crazy with grief like Ashfur (oh how I dearly love you my Ashfur baby). I chose both.

[Crow]

(I’m hoping when I voted no that meant misunderstood?)
She was in depression. No one makes logical decisions in depression. She’s my child. Don’t call my child evil! *hisses*
i guess if i kill someone, it's totally fine! after all, i'm depressed! i can't make logical decisions.

[Mango]

i guess if i kill someone, it's totally fine! after all, i'm depressed! i can't make logical decisions.
Not in human society. But in the clans society I think it’s fine- you need to justify yourself. And if you recover then you shoud redeem yourself in any way shape or form.

[Hexict]

First off, I get why people love to think of villains as heroes in their own story. I too love when we get to see the villains side and love when the hero is actually harsher than who we believed to be evil. But that isn't always the case. There are some people that are good who do bad things. They usually chose to do good but have their darker moments. But then there are people who are just evil. They chose that path by doing horrible actions with little to no reasoning. Not every villain is the hero... some are still just the villain, just with more depth.


My personal opinion is that she was evil.

I'm not saying she was evil her whole life, but rather in the end she did terrible things that cannot be forgiven. I understand that she was not in a great state of mind and that she had been through a lot, but given what she does and how she goes about it you can see that it was her fault. I'm going to explain why she is evil, but also point out somethings that I will not condemn her for:

I am not going to condemn her for falling in love with Appledusk since you cannot choose who you love nor do I fully approve of the rules that is against cross-clan relations (i get why they have it, but i can understand why it's broken a lot - again, you can't choose who you love). I also would never say she "murdered" her kits. Of course, she should have been aware that the current was too much for them and put their safety above all. Mapleshade should have waited until the river calmed down - even spending to night in unknown territory as long as she found cover would have been safer for the kits. I do get that she was perhaps a bit too emotional after getting thrown out of her clan to think things through, but again, she should have been aware for her kit's safety since she was crossing the river because of them. Though this was unintentional and I don't full blame her, she is shown to grieve over them greatly as it was a horrible accident.

Now to why I believe her to be evil. Mapleshade may have been driven by grief, and she may have been hallucinating, but she did still kill three cats and tried to murder a pregnant cat as well just because she was Appledusk's new mate. She kills all of these cats because she blames them for her kits, when it was more her fault than others even though it was an accident - though Frecklewish did do a horrible thing by not bothering to help, but apparently he saw/thought Riverclan cats were helping (?). Mapleshade blamed Frecklewish for killing the kits by being silent, even though they had been kind to her and the kits and would help them when she first had them. She also killed their medicine cat at the moonestone because they informed the clan of her and Appledusk's relationship. She then killed Appledusk after he claimed he didn't love her, in fact, she wasn't even aiming for her but rather his new pregnant mate who was innocent on the whole matter, but he stepped in front of her and was killed instead. Not to mention that fact that she knew what she was doing. This wasn't something spontaneous that couldn't have been stopped, it wasn't an impulsive action that was triggered by her depression. No, it took days for her plan out these deaths. The fact that she planned them out for so long shows that she can be condemned for her actions as they were not something that she couldn't control.

I understand why she was angered with these people, but none of them did anything that deserved to be killed for. As I stated, she had more to do with her kits death than they did, yet she never blamed herself and instead went around and killed others.

Not only did she do this, but as she died she did not regret any of it, but rather enjoyed the fact that she had done all of that. Right away she began to train others in the Dark Forest so that they would be able to torture the clans, despite them not having anything to do with Mapleshade. Perhaps she wanted to torture innocent cats that had done nothing simply because she had lost everything? She messed with Crookedstar and caused him pain simply because he was the descendant of Appledusk and Reedshine - something he had no control over. This doesn't make up for what she had done, she chose to lose whatever she had left when she decided to murder other cats. Mapleshade continued to try to bring harm to others until the say Sandstorm finished her.

Therefore she is evil, for she had chosen to go down this path. She was aware of what she was doing and had complete control over her actions, yet instead of regretting them she was proud of the deaths she had caused and further torture she could inflict upon the still living.


Well, she did kill a cat (Apple-something), and kinda-sorta ruin Crookedstar's life, but her Clan banished her AND her kits! (Wth?) Her kits died, her mate abandoned her, so I say..both.

Mapleshade actually killed three cats and then attempted to murder a pregnant cat who had done nothing - she was Appledusk's new mate, but should not be punished for that.

The clan banished her because it is against the code to become mates with someone from another clan. And whether or not you and I may agree with that rule, that is the punishment for breaking the code. It is viewed as a betrayal to the clan, therefore the clan would not wish to have them among their ranks any longer.

Though I don't fully blame her for her kits' deaths, I did explain why she does share some blame above. And her mate abandoned her because he was heart-broken that their kits were dead, and blamed her.
(such as if someone you loved left the kids in the tub who then drowned on their watch, it would be extremely difficult to get over that - and relationships have actually ended after the kids are accidentally killed on one's watch)

Not in human society. But in the clans society I think it’s fine- you need to justify yourself. And if you recover then you shoud redeem yourself in any way shape or form.

Given the fact that it is actually against the code to kill someone in battle (unless life or death) I would expect it to be highly frowned upon - and extremely punishable - to kill someone when there's not only life or death, but also no battle and they are not doing anything that deserves it. Mapleshade actually attacked them at random when they were simply walking around their own territory and murdered them.

She would either be driven out and given a death threat if she ever returned, or actually be executed by the leader(s) after doing this had she not been killed before that could happen.

[wickedvirtues]

Mapleshade actually killed three cats and then attempted to murder a pregnant cat who had done nothing - she was Appledusk's new mate, but should not be punished for that.

The clan banished her because it is against the code to become mates with someone from another clan. And whether or not you and I may agree with that rule, that is the punishment for breaking the code. It is viewed as a betrayal to the clan, therefore the clan would not wish to have them among their ranks any longer.

Though I don't fully blame her for her kits' deaths, I did explain why she does share some blame above. And her mate abandoned her because he was heart-broken that their kits were dead, and blamed her.
(such as if someone you loved left the kids in the tub who then drowned on their watch, it would be extremely difficult to get over that - and relationships have actually ended after the kids are accidentally killed on one's watch)



I agree with that, but why did the Clan exile the kits, who were only a few moons old? There were other queens in the Clan, surely, who could've taken them in, instead of them being exiled for their mother breaking the code? (Just my opinion though.)

[Hexict]

I agree with that, but why did the Clan exile the kits, who were only a few moons old? There were other queens in the Clan, surely, who could've taken them in, instead of them being exiled for their mother breaking the code? (Just my opinion though.)

Yeah... I'm not a huge supporter of some of the codes, so I don't like how they went about this. I believe the clans just saw the kits as a code violation personified. They may believe that the kits would refuse to fight for them if they went to war with Riverclan - the same as the fear for the parents, hence why the rule is in place. I'm sure to her clanmates, this punishment seemed to fit, but I'm not a huge fan of it either :/

[BEAR.]

The kits were banished because of who their father was and Mapleshade's deceit surrounding their parentage.

When Mapleshade was outed, it was revealed to the Clan the father of her kits was Appledusk - the cat they deemed responsible for the deaths of Oakstar's son (Birchface) and Flowerpaw (Birchface's apprentice).

While the code did have some influence over Oakstar's decision, it was primarily because he felt betrayed over Mapleshade's actions. She had led the Clan to believe they were Birchface's kits, and he was repulsed by the knowledge the father of the kits was the cat who "murdered" his son and an apprentice.

If it had been any other cat, it's likely Mapleshade and her kits wouldn't have been exiled .. or at the very least, her kits.